BELINDA KING, HOST: Let’s have a little bit of a chat about what’s been going on. We have an Australian MP on the ground, man on the ground this morning. Pat Conroy, Federal Member for Shortland, Shadow Minister for International Development and the Pacific, and Shadow Minister Assisting for Climate Change. Pat Conroy, good morning.
PAT CONROY, SHADOW MINISTER FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND THE PACIFIC, SHADOW MINISTER ASSISTING FOR CLIMATE CHANGE: Good morning, how are you?
KING: Doing really well. Roughly what time is it in Glasgow? About, what is it, a quarter to nine, a quarter to 10?
CONROY: It is a quarter to nine at night.
KING: Marvellous, marvellous. So how long have you been in Glasgow Pat?
CONROY: I landed at lunchtime today so I had just enough time to get to the conference for a few hours and chat with some people to get a feel for what it was like, and through the miracles of onboard Wi-Fi I have been tracking it remotely while I flew for 24 hours.
KING: Hey I have to ask you before we get into the conference, what’s it like to travel internationally again?
CONROY: It is bizarre. Like it’s very strange. I was so out of it that my wife had to remind me on Friday that I might need to get some UK pounds and I had to go to three different banks to actually find one that had some in stock. So it’s very strange for all of us I think.
KING: And were the airports busy?
CONROY: Not Sydney. Sydney was just opening up. Dubai was quite busy, but Sydney was still very slow.
KING: Well let’s take it to Glasgow right now. You’ve had a few hours to see some of the conference in action. What are your immediate takeaways from that?
CONROY: Well I think that people are hopeful that this conference can deliver some concrete outcomes and people have said to me that they think it will land somewhere between the disappointment of Copenhagen and the great achievements of Paris. So some good things will come out of it, not as much as we’d like. Unfortunately one of the reasons for that is the attitude of the Australian Government where several people have unprompted mentioned to me how disappointed they are in the approach that Prime Minister Morrison has taken.
KING: International politics is certainly at play with the negotiations. How do you think that has framed things?
CONROY: Well I think it’s very unfortunate for Mr Morrison to try and brand things as the unique Australian way because in this context that is seen as being a laggard. A country that rides off the efforts of others, particularly to reduce emissions. A country that sort of gives cover for other countries to do nothing.
And so we’re certainly, our international reputation has taken a battering over the last few days, and Mr Morrison’s speech yesterday was very poorly received where he basically told every world leader assembled that you’re not relevant to this debate, that’s false. To argue that world leaders acting in unison don’t have a role in combatting climate change is frankly rubbish and insulting.
KING: Pat Conroy, you’re the Shadow Minister for International Development and the Pacific so let’s speak for a moment about the Infrastructure for Resilient Island States initiative that Australia has joined with India and Britain on. It’s designed to help nations that are vulnerable to rising sea levels and natural disasters. What’s your understanding of that agreement?
CONROY: Yeah, so this is an agreement to help with what’s called climate adaptation. There is a degree of global warming that is baked into the system and it’s those low-lying islands in the Pacific that are going to be most affected. So that adaptation fund is really important. It’s a way of helping countries that are already suffering inundation. I met for example with leaders, delegations from Kiribati where they tell me that their school halls, the drinking wells are already being inundated by rising sea levels.
So it’s really important, but those same Pacific Island leaders also make the point to me that we also need to cut our emissions dramatically if we are to have any hope of saving a lot of those Pacific Islands. So that fund is important, but it can’t be as a substitute for significant greenhouse gas cuts by 2030.
KING: Indeed, I was going to raise that very point with you – the fund is the fund, it’s money, but it’s not actual change to what we are pumping into the air.
CONROY: That’s absolutely right, and that’s the nut of this conference. This conference is all about calling on every country in the world to increase their 2030 ambitions, so it’s very important that we commit to net zero by 2050. But this conference is about everyone doubling down on cutting emissions by 2030 because the next decade is the critical decade, and many countries, for example the United States lifted their ambition to a 50 per cent cut by 2030, the UK a similar number, and Australia refusing to lift our target has been incredibly poorly received.
If every country replicated the commitment the Australia Government gave, global warming would be around 3.5-4 degrees above pre-industrial levels, not the 1.5 degrees that we are actually aiming for. So that 2030 target is the most critical part of this entire conference happening right now in Glasgow.
KING: You mentioned the US and the UK there with their commitments to get to net zero by 2030, has there been an outstanding contribution by a country made that has you impressed?
CONROY: Well I think President Biden’s announcement today, the 50 per cent cut by 2030 has been the driving force behind massive deforestation initiative that he announced today, with a goal of ending deforestation by 2030. So that’s certainly been very impressive. But even Boris Johnson who is on the opposite side of politics from me, I’ve found it almost inspiring to see the passion he’s driven into working with other countries to get the greater ambition. It’s fair to say that this Government led by Boris has been the driving force behind lots of countries committing to net zero emissions by 2050. So Biden from my side of politics and Boris Johnson on the completely opposite side of politics I think have been doing their upmost to make this conference successful.
KING: In terms of what’s needed to keep that 1.5 degrees within reach, has anything been presented as a science, climate science, that is notable, that is new, that is super effective?
CONROY: Well the recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change Report found that on average countries would need to reduce their emissions by somewhere between 45-60 per cent. So obviously the UK and the US are smack bang in the middle of that. Us at 26 per cent is a long way from that, so that’s really important. And everyone agrees that technology is going to play a key role in that, so that to some extent is where the Australian Government is trying to, but unless you have targets and unless you put in place laws to drive that technology, those technologies will just sit on the shelf because there won’t be a market for them.
So I think this is where people are concerned about the approach of the Australian Government. Yes technology is great, hydrogen has got a huge future particularly in Northern Tasmania, you could be the heart of hydrogen, of clean aluminium for example, but you need government policies, you need laws made in Parliament and targets to drive up the uptake in that technology, and that’s a key message I’ve gotten from the conference. Bill Gates was talking about that today. Bill Gates, obviously a very persuasive person about the power of technology, has made it very clear that you need governments to create the markets and create the demand for that technology, so that was a clear takeaway from the conference today.
KING: Well many of the leaders are departing from the conference. What is there left to take place?
CONROY: Well the big negotiations are really just starting to kick off, and you’ll also see announcements and negotiations on specific areas, so for example tomorrow is a day all about climate finance. How do we support developing nations make that transition? The day after that is about energy and that’s obviously very relevant to Australia. I think you’ll see announcements from countries around phasing out coal fired power and possibly not even accepting coal exports from countries like Australia. So that’s going to be hugely significant to the economic future of our country. And later days will cover things like adaptation – how do we coordinate better at adapting to inevitable climate change?
So there is lots more to go. We’ve had, sort of the showpiece elements with the Prime Ministers and Presidents making their big speeches, and now the conference will get down to the nitty gritty of really determining whether this conference will help the globe combat global warming and whether Australia can take advantage of the huge economic opportunities that that transformation will bring in new jobs in clean aluminium, in hydropower, in battery manufacturing, in those things, and that’s where we all need governments, especially our own to be a bit more active.
KING: What do you hope to get out of the coming days of the conference Pat?
CONROY: The main things I hope to get out of it is more information about what other countries are doing, lessons we can take for Australia. Labor has been very open that we will be announcing our climate policy post-Glasgow but well before the next election, so that will inform our policy development is that feedback from other countries.
I think it’s also important that I convey messages to other delegations that while they might be disappointed in the current Australian Government’s position, if Labor is elected, they can expect a government that’s more serious about taking action on climate change and seizing the economic opportunities – the thousands, the tens of thousands of new jobs in new industries that can come from that. So for me it’s about gathering information and conveying important messages to the rest of the world that Australia in the right circumstances can step up.
KING: So the nitty gritty negotiations will go on for a number of days now. You’re going to be at the conference for I think a few days. Can we catch up again perhaps at the end of the week?
CONROY: Absolutely, I am here for another seven days so I’d love to talk again whenever it suits you.
KING: Marvellous. Pat Conroy, Member for Shortland with us this morning on the line from Glasgow from COP26.